Talk:Sonek Pran
I realise this might seem very fussy considering the release of the novel will be in only a few weeks. But the novel is not out yet, and the novel is the source, not excerpts and previews. While it is Extremely unlikely any alterations will be made to the text in that time it’s still not time, and gleaming information from a carefully chosen extract is questionable, we have no idea what further information the full text of the novel will provide and what effect that will have on the form the article must take. --8of5 13:30, 27 December 2008 (UTC) :I think it's EXTREMELY fussy. The novel will be out in just a couple of weeks (which means it's already been printed). The excerpt is publicly available, and it's impossible for the text of the novel to be changed, and, even if it was, it's not like we can't edit the entries. We also have a standing warning at the main page that you read any and all pages on Memory Beta at your own risk for spoilers. And on top of that, nothing that's been released about the novel in any way constitutes a major spoiler. There's a difference between enforcing a reasonable standard and just making a rule for the sake of making a rule; there's no good reason not to include information from the excerpts unless this community came to a consensus about not including information from pre-released excerpts. Has it, and I am just unaware of that? -- Sci 16:52 27 DEC 2008 UTC I'm not creating a rule, I'm enforcing it, because yes, the community has, in general discussion on the topic (don't think there's ever been a vote or anything) generally agreed not to use pre-release info as a source. As I acknowledged, this is really fussy, but I'm just enforcing the rule, what with slippery slopes n'all... --8of5 17:15, 27 December 2008 (UTC) ::I completely agree with 8of5 -- let's not jump the gun here! It's not out yet! -- Captain MKB 18:57, 27 December 2008 (UTC) :I really think this is the sort of thing that ought to be put to a vote, though, so that there'll be a formal community decision on record. -- Sci 20:57 27 DEC 2008 UTC ::Well it's two to one so far! -- Captain MKB 21:54, 27 December 2008 (UTC) Oh, good fucking God! It's from a preview provided from the freaking author himself! It's got spoiler warnings and notice that its from an upcoming novel, and it's almost entirely background material! Jesus Christ, just think of it as a sneak preview and move on to something relevant.--Turtletrekker 01:54, 28 December 2008 (UTC) ::Watch your language, Turtletrekker. One reason we don't work with unreleased novels is that the novels could often be edited after the synopsis was released, no matter what the "freaking author" says about it. Maybe you'd realize this if you calmed down some and stopped flying off the handle. -- Captain MKB 02:03, 28 December 2008 (UTC) Speaking as the freaking author, I'm okay with waiting until the book's in print. After all, one never knows -- do one? :) ---Keith R.A. DeCandido 02:28, 28 December 2008 (UTC) :Spoilers and reliability of the source aside you cannot construct a balanced article out of a partial view of a source. We (aside from Mr. KRAD) do not know what else A Singular Destiny will reveal about this character and how that will effect how the article must be written. :Ok, this case is at the less dangerous end of the wedge, but if we open up preview information in general as an acceptable source we risk all kinds of problems when these early-release things change before release, or aren't released at all. --8of5 10:47, 28 December 2008 (UTC) "Less dangerous?" "Cannot construct a balanced article?" Dude, we're making articles for a wiki on Star Trek licensed fiction, not writing the new edition of Encyclopedia Britannica. It's not a big deal -- if we include information from a preview, and then some major new piece of info gets released with the work itself that changes our understanding of the previewed information, we can edit the articles again! The active members of this community might disagree with me, but I say that the rule against including information from excerpts and previews is arbitrary, a rule that exists for the sole purpose of having a rule. It serves no purpose and it -- like many of the rules and decisions made at MB recently -- just makes this place less fun. -- Sci 18:11 28 DEC 2008 UTC ::There's also the fact that I don't want spoilers in front of me all the time, for unreleased books no less. It's bad enough we had an oversealous user revealing the ending of Destiny in edit summaries, which means there's little point in me reading those books, isn't there. By the way, no one has used many spoiler warnings on those. ::There's also the fact that text from unreleased books could be considered a copyright violation by the publisher. ::So, Sci, we are all very sorry that spoilers, copyrights, and the needs of other users make the internet less fun for you. But it's time to stop thinking only about yourself. With Keith R.A. DeCandido involving himself in the community and making his opinion known, we are now 3 to 2 in favor of maintaining our policy of not ruining the book for everyone, and maintaining our policy of not relying on unreliable pre-release information. -- Captain MKB 19:19, 28 December 2008 (UTC) It is obviously not going to be the case in for this example, but there is a very good reason - purpose - (in addition to those already mentioned) this rule exists, and you just have to look at our unpublished works page to understand it, projects can get very far along, have previews, excerpts and all sorts of pre-release info released and still not actually be published (or change in someway before they are), at which point we'd have to route through articles to find information from that source and remove it, which yes is entirely possible to do, but avoidable if we just wait for works to actually be published. Completely irrelevant for A Singular Destiny (I would hope!) but we're not just having rules for the joy of being a pain in the arse! --8of5 20:36, 28 December 2008 (UTC) *The book is out now. Any reason not to move the info below to the article page? -- 02:33, 5 February 2009 (UTC) Stored article Sonek Pran was a Federation citizen of mixed Human, Vulcan and Betazoid heritage. Pran's parents, Kojo Pran and T'Nallis as well as his maternal grandparents, were all associated together with a musical troupe called the A.C. Walden Medicine Show. Pran's mother went into labor while the troupe was en route to Betazed when their shuttle experienced engine problems, and thus Sonek was born interstellar space. Growing up with the troupe, Sonek leaned to play the banjo, the harmonica, the zorvat and the ka'athyra, but never had the same passion for music that his family had. Upon leaving the troupe, Pran obtained his education at various universities representing his entire heritage, getting his undergraduate degree at YloTrap on Betazed, before moving to Earth and Fordham University where he received his masters, and finally finishing his education by obtaining his doctorate at the V'Shull Institute on Vulcan. Sonek's wife was a Starfleet officer who served as transporter chief on the . They had two children: his daughter, Sara Pran, was a musician who followed her grandparents into the A.C. Walden Medicine Show, while Pran and his son had a strained relationship. Circa the year 2351, Pran wrote a monograph about the Cardassians that caught the attention of Federation President T'Pragh, who invited Pran to the Palais de la Concorde to discuss it. Pran received a level-twenty security clearance from T'Pragh for his work during the Cardassian Wars, a clearance that was never recinded. Pran then served as a regular advisor to the Office of the President for each of the administrations that followed, until the year 2373 and the outbreak of the Dominion War. President Min Zife then released Pran from his service as the two never saw eye-to-eye, and Zife very seldom followed Pran's advice. Notable accomplishments during Pran's service to the Federation were a negotiation with Brikar during an incident that convinced them to re-open their orbit*, keeping the Caitian's in the Federation when they wanted out, and talking the Sulamid energy minister into complying with the Edosian Accords. :*Presumably during the brief state of war that existed between the Federation and Brikar in 2357 ( ) Pran sent the next eight years working as a Professor at McKay University on Mars. In mid-2381, in the months following the Borg invasion, Pran was once again asked to serve the Federation by new president, Nanietta Bacco through her Chief of Staff Esperanza Piñiero. Piñiero attached Pran to the under the command of Captain Ezri Dax, which was scheduled to travel to Achernar Prime, the capital world of the Imperial Romulan State. There, Pran was tasked to negotiate with Empress Donatra about providing aid and relief to Donata's bitter rival, Empress Tal'Aura of the Romulan Star Empire. ( ) :Information comes from on-line excert found here: http://www.sff.net/people/krad/asdexc.htm Family tree I think there's an error in the family tree. It should be his paternal grandparents who are part of the musicians group, because his mother T'Nallis, judging by the name, seems to be the offspring of the Vulcan/Bajoran couple and we know that his Vulcan grandfather is a professor on Mars.-- 13:17, 11 February 2009 (UTC) :On pg 24, Sonek says ''"My paternal grandparents are a human and a Betazoid; my maternal ones are a Vulcan and a Bajoran." Then later, on pg 50, the narration says His father, Kojo Pran, and maternal grandparents were all part of Medicine Show, and his mother, T'Nallis, was the show's sound engineer. The most reasonable assumption is that Tolik was part of the ACWMS as a younger man, and became a history professor at some point in the 65 years after Sonek was born. -- 23:04, 11 February 2009 (UTC)